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Post by MH Mijolnir on May 30, 2006 23:54:01 GMT -5
Yea, nobody likes Cyclops...
including me
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smaur
Writer
robot in disguise
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Post by smaur on May 30, 2006 23:55:13 GMT -5
I wasn't worried about Scott going, necessarily, I just thought his death was poorly done. Heck, I didn't think he was dead until the tombstone. At the end of the movie. We didn't even see his death, just his glasses. Because OBVIOUSLY he couldn't be alive without his glasses. Someone said Brett Ratner homed in on the character development of Cyclops's character and had to kill him. Because god forbid we actually have good characterization. Hence the "theoretically".
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Post by MH Mijolnir on May 30, 2006 23:59:37 GMT -5
..I thought it was good...
however i almost fell asleep the first time...possibly because I'd been awake for two days straight and really active...
I wanna see Wolverine
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Rulke
Senior Writer
Loyal and will always ♥ Elizabeth and will always remain faithful to her.
Posts: 125
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Post by Rulke on May 31, 2006 5:32:59 GMT -5
Did Nightcrawler die cause he my fave character, and it has Juggernaut in it i noticed it on the site.
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Elizabeth
Senior Writer
DANCE MONKEY!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by Elizabeth on May 31, 2006 6:54:18 GMT -5
My dad's friend said it basically wasn't a good movie, I haven't seen any of them so I can't play out my opinion.
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Post by Firestarter on May 31, 2006 10:05:57 GMT -5
Actually, I reckon they didn't portray Cyclops death very well so they have the option of bringing him back ... Oh, and Xavier too, if they want too. I think they were just leaving it open for some more movies. They didn't want to make any really important characters die definitely without any way of coming back (anyway, X-Men always seem to make it back somehow ...)
The film was okay, but it was just dominated by the "stars" - Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman. It was basically them taking all the lines, relegating Rogue and Cyclops to like ... nothing. Why was Rogue even in the film? She did basically nothing. Nightcrawler wasn't in it because he's busy on another film, and they didn't bother even trying to explain a reason for it inside the film at all. Introducing Angel seemed to be pointless to me too, he had no real role.
But I have to admit, Beast was brilliant.
They just tried to fit too much into one movie. The Phoenix saga, the idea of a cure AND new characters ... it didn't work for me. They should have focused on one of the first two, and left the other for another date.
Juggernaught was shockingly bad. Why did they have Vinnie Jones play him? Who cast him? Why? Collossus needed a bigger part too, he said like one line.
Although, the fastball special was legendary.
So, I'm of mixed opinion. It was good because it was X-Men, but it was poorly directed and written. Kinda like the new Star Wars movies. EDIT: I wasn't going to rant but I'm going to add some. They really could have made this movie something, and I'm disappointed they didn't. I mean, they included references to things that would make absolutely no sense to someone who doesn't know anything about X-Men (the Danger Room, the Sentinel they kill in the simultation which nobody mentions - why's it there? There's no indication they exist in the film's universe. Also, characters like Multiple Man and Psylocke are not even properly introduced - they're just there. They could have cut a lot of this out). So they include references to stuff, but don't back it up. It's like it's just there to make it "X-Menish" without helping the story at all.
Random other rants: How come the Phoenix throws Wolverine around at the start of the film, and at the end she can't do squat? How come she kills Cyclops when in the comics the whole point was she couldn't kill Scott because of her love for him, and eventually sacrificed herself? How come Kitty phases through the floor, and manages to pull Juggernaught down? If we think about logically, she has to stay phased to be in the ground, so she couldn't pull the Juggernaught down from underneath, she would go through him. Also, he's not a mutant so Leech wouldn't affect him but now I'm just blabbering. What's the point of Psylocke being in the film - just to die?
The Wolverine spin-off will be terrible, I can already imagine.
Here's hoping for X4 with a good script and good characters that are well-developed. Oh, and throw in Gambit just because he absolutely rocks.
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Post by Areida on May 31, 2006 10:51:21 GMT -5
I wasn't worried about Scott going, necessarily, I just thought his death was poorly done. Heck, I didn't think he was dead until the tombstone. At the end of the movie. We didn't even see his death, just his glasses. Because OBVIOUSLY he couldn't be alive without his glasses. LMAO! I wanted him to live, personally. I couldn't stand him in the first movie, but I was gettin' kind of fond of him before they killed him off. *shrugs* I'm still ticked that they killed Xavier. He's my favourite. I was shouting at the screen after it happened and one of my friends was all, "You just need to sit back and take a deeep breath...", to which I shouted, "But they just killed the professor!" *fumes* Wolverine annoyed me in this movie. He seemed a lot more whiny and immature than in the other two. And did anyone else feel a strong pro-gay message in there?
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reyu
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by reyu on May 31, 2006 12:12:56 GMT -5
I had no problem with the dialogue at all. If you nit-pick about dialogue, you tend to miss what the movie is all about.
I thought the acting was supurb and the cliche "one liners" awesome (I don't respond to my slave name!)
Anyway, this movie gets my award of "Best Movie Ever" I guess it's because I am an X-men fan-boy but I have never left a theatre so thrilled about seeing a movie. NEVER in my life have I felt like that walking back to my car. Normally its the same ol' same ol'. "Yeah, that was a good movie. I will probably buy the DVD" or "This or that could have been done better... Wrong dude for that roll blah, blah"
This time though... Upon leaving the theatre I was jumping up and down with the friend I saw it with. We talked about it for two hours probably. There was just to many amazing scenes with great actors to discount this movie as anything but brilliant. The stare down between Jean and Xavier? Logan walking up to Jean and regenerating faster than she could disolve him? Magnito moving the bridge? IM THE JUGGERNAUGHT BITCH?
Reflecting though, I can see things that could have been done better. But for me... I am content with X-3 as "Best Movie of All Time"
~Reyu P.S. What about that cliffhanger ending? Followed up by the extra scene after the credits? I almost died from awesomness
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Post by reichieru on May 31, 2006 12:23:53 GMT -5
Huh? Where is the pro-gay message?
1) A lot of the complaints here honestly sound like the complaints of purists who have problems accepting that film is a very different medium and they MUST make changes. It would be too complicated to include Juggernaught's story and explain that he is not a mutant and therefore not effected by Leech's powers. The source of the Pheonix and many other Pheonix related details were also too complicated for the film since the director and writer were building on the other movies' stories. Maybe they did try to fit too much, but it worked. Every character had a purpose, even if it was because Magnito had a use for that character's ability. They were not making a movie of the comics. They were making a movie based on the comics
2) Angels' role was subtle. Since Angel really was the son of the person who made the cure, it makes sence to include him. As well, it is a very ironic moment when Angel rescues his father because it would not have been able to happen had Angel been cured, therefore showing that the father was mistaken to try to force the cure onto the son. Rogue's role in the story seemed pretty obvious to me. It showed that even if mutants were not being persecuted, some people do suffer as a result of their abilities and that some people may really need it and benefit from it, as well and promoting that it should be up to the individual to decide if it is right for them or not.
3) And yes, people who are very familiar with X-Men would get more out of the scene in the danger room. However, it is pretty easy to understand the concept of a simulation room and one does not need to know anything about the comics or cartoons to appriciate the scene. I had completely forgotten about the Danger Room until after the scene and my boyfriend mentioned how excited he was that it was there, yet I was not confused for one second. The Sentinal, okay, maybe it really was just a little reference for the fans, but so what? How hard is it to imagine a giant robot as a potential enemy. Besides, there are things that happen in that scene that set up lots of character stuff that you need later. It wouldn't work without what happens in that scene.
4) The reason the Pheonix couldn't do what she had done near the beginning at the end was because by that point she had lost what little control she had.
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Post by Firestarter on May 31, 2006 13:19:06 GMT -5
Reich, you may as well have said "A lot of Jack's complaints..." in your second sentence since all of those were mine!
Anyway. I can accept the Juggernaught thing: that's far enough. I guess, on a purely film-going level, he was quite entertaining, and I liked Kitty outwitting him. The problem with the Phoenix story is that I think it had a lot more potential, and seemed to be an "add-on" to the main storyline, and I think it could have had a lot more focus. It seemed just like a reason to bring Jean Grey back into the story. I would've preferred her not to be in the movie, Cyclops to have been given a better role, and the Phoenix story perhaps left for the fourth movie? If there is one. I'm just saying this is what I would have preferred.
I'm not buying the Angel part. I think they could have used something else if they were going for the effect of showing the cure shouldn't be forced. If you're saying the Rogue part was neccesary, why was it so short? She was hardly in the movie at all. They could have explored here feelings better, and shown the debate between taking the cure and not, which would have provided depth for the whole movie: to be honest, I found the finale a bit flat. The X-Men just seemed to be there because they were "good" and Magneto is "bad", completely ignoring greys and just leaving a summer-movie blockbuster's obligatory black and white. Just because it's a movie about action and cool stuff doesn't mean it has to lack thoughtful scenes and purpose. The only scene that vaguely explored the take the cure or not was Storm's outburst in the mansion, and Rogue, who wasn't explored enough. It was lacking for me, and it meant that Angel's and Rogue's stories were too short. They should've picked one, not two.
The Danger Room scene: fair enough for it to be there, but the Sentinel is just a stretch. It was pointless. Trask is in the movie, but why are there Sentinels? In the Movie storyline, the main thing the X-men have fought are other mutants .. but they don't train against mutants or use tactics against mutants? Seems pretty stupid to me. It just seemed like if they wanted to use the scene and the build-up about teamwork and character stuff you mentioned then it should have been developed, rather than a one-minute tack-on at the start.
The Phoenix thing? She evaporated countless things - I don't think her power wouldn't be able to disintegrate Adamantium. Dark Phoenix can suck up the power of suns ... the bit where she died is absolutely terrible. I could imagine Storm being able to beat here, but Wolverine? Jean Grey could have pushed him back, in control or not! She could pull water up into the air, but she couldn't knock back one man? I guess you could validate it by saying Jean Grey may have been battling the Phoenix or whatnot, but that's doubtful.
Anyway, I guess most of that is personal opinion. I didn't like some scenes which seemed pointless or undeveloped. This movie had a lot of potential and in many ways feel flat. Cyclop's just basically disappeared from the movie, and no-one mentions anything whatsoever. No-one really cares.
I enjoyed watching it, but I thought it could have done more. In the end though, it will make lots of money, everyone will be rich, and it will be forgotten in about ten years.
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Matt
Writer
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Post by Matt on May 31, 2006 14:27:32 GMT -5
I saw it yesterday, and thought it was good. I only went because my guy, friend, person, thing invited me to see it with him, otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered. Haven't seen the first two, but now I might. I enjoyed it.
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smaur
Writer
robot in disguise
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Post by smaur on May 31, 2006 15:00:17 GMT -5
No, Nightcrawler didn't die. Alan Cumming didn't sign onto this movie like Firestarter said, they didn't explain this. At all. Which was kind of ridiculous.
Yes, but it was in the other two movies, too. Especially in X2 remember that scene with Pyro and his parents, where they find out he's a mutant? That was specifically designed as pro-gay commentary. (If it isn't ridiculously self-evident, I believe Bryan Singer and a bunch of the cast mention it in the extra features.) I don't actually mind too much, because X-Men has always been based around the idea of persecuting minorities, and also ... I'm pro-gay. So, yeah.
But I'd say X2 had a much stronger pro-gay message.
Er, I have a lengthy spiel to accompany Rei/Firestarter's ... will get back to that when I have more time. Although, to a great extent, I more or less agree with everything you said, Firestarter.
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Post by reichieru on May 31, 2006 16:34:02 GMT -5
Okay, could you give an example from X1 and 3. You're right about X2, and that scene was blatantly obvious, but I fail to see where it is specifically in the other movies. The message of the movies is anti-descrimination of any kind, not specific to homosexuality. More likely it's your own values and experience that could cause you to interpret it that way. For example, the "cure" could easily be interpreted as attempting to cure homosexuality or it could be thought of as exterminating a race/culture or forcing conversion to Christianity.
PS. It was Iceman's parents, not Pyro's.
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Post by Areida on May 31, 2006 16:41:07 GMT -5
Well, I think a bit of when the cure comes out for the mutants, and they alternate between being thrilled at the thought of joining the humans (Rogue), whereas others are appalled and insist there's nothing wrong with them (Storm).
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Post by Firestarter on May 31, 2006 16:43:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I related the disease-thing with homosexuality ... because people have come out before and proclaimed homosexuality is also just something that can be cured. It's good though, because that's always what has made X-Men stand out - having issues about discrimination ever since the comic began.
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