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Post by incandescence on Jun 13, 2006 15:11:30 GMT -5
So I'm trying to write a novel about Christianity; or, rather, using the Christian legacy as a guiding light. My own interpretation of Christianity seems to be fairly non-mainstream, but orthodox no less. Of course, I don't see orthodoxy as being boring and formal but rather thrilling and ever-disturbing. So without further ado, here's some introductory remarks on the nature of Christianity. Please respond and help me to understand other ways of seeing the Christian legacy.
When the world shook and the sun was wiped out of heaven, it was not at the crucifixion, but at the cry from the cross: the cry which confessed that God was forsaken of God. If atheists (which I am one) are to choose a creed from all the creeds and a god from all the gods of the world, carefully weighing all the gods of inevitable recurrence and of unalterable power, they will not find another god who has himself been in revolt. If the atheists themselves choose a god, they will find only one divinity who ever uttered their isolation; only one religion in which God seemed for an instant to be an atheist. Which is why the overlapping of man's isolation from God and God's isolation from Himself makes Christianity terribly revolutionary.
That a good man may have his back to the wall is no more than we already knew, but that God could have his back to the wall is a boast for all insurgents forever. Christianity is the only religion on earth that felt that omnipotence made God incomplete. Christianity alone has felt that God, to be wholly God, must have been a rebel as well as a king. In the standard form of atheism, God dies for men who stop believing in Him; in Christianity, God dies for Himself.
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Post by Snoink on Jun 13, 2006 20:30:05 GMT -5
XD Okay, so this is where I usually go when I want to research Christianity, because I am an evil Catholic. www.newadvent.org/
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Post by Duskglimmer on Jun 13, 2006 20:44:44 GMT -5
Begging your pardon, but I had a very difficult time trying to piece together what in the world you were saying there and what I thought I had figured out made little or no sense to me. Is there any way that you can re-explain what it was you were saying?
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Post by Snoink on Jun 13, 2006 20:45:59 GMT -5
I think he wants our ideas on Christianity so he can distort them in his novel.
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sabradan
Senior Writer
The Godfather.
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Post by sabradan on Jun 13, 2006 22:50:31 GMT -5
My Dad says that "Christianity is the Lazy Man's Judaism"--All the God, all the Salvation, none of the work. (Meaning that you have no where near as many, nor as strict religious laws and precedents as Jews do) I don't mean any disrespect by any of this. Thanks.
I don't know what to say for myself personally, except that I find it hard to believe that an ancient Hebrew (Jewish) Rabbi was a celebate man who didn't have a wife or kids. (I'm not trying to spread conspiracy theories a la Dan Brown, nor am I trying to start a fight) Merely, I find it hard to believe that an ancient religious leader of ancient Hebrews, who were ruled by all intents and purposes by their religion (like all religions at the time), would be single and celebate, when their religion specifically commands that "You shall be fruitful and multiply" as well as that it was tradition that EVERY Jewish man was married by at the very latest 2-3 years after his Bar Mitzvah (As in, 16 at the latest). Say what you will, but I say Jesus was married and probably had kids, unless he was somehow impotent.
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Post by Areida on Jun 14, 2006 12:52:34 GMT -5
Yeah, Brad, I'm with Dusky; you lost me too. Dumb it down for this poor, non-sky-high-IQ child.
I don't take any disrespect from Dan's statement, because I think popular Christianity (i.e. the standard Christianity today) has thrown away way too many standards for living. You know, "Jesus loves you, so come as you." *rolls eyes*
In a lot of ways, Christianity is so liberating, but it's freedom with restrictions, which makes it an even truer freedom.
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KayJuran
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Post by KayJuran on Jun 14, 2006 14:42:58 GMT -5
Dan - I'm a Christian, and haven't read Dan's Brown book so I don't really understand the controversy. When I asked my friend, she just said that the book is about Jesus marrying Mary Magdelene and having children. Well, I know that most of that book is supposed to be fiction, but even if I did believe it, I wouldn't have any problem with thinking that he married and had children. It's normal, and it's human - and Jesus came to us as a human. My thoughts on Judaism.. well, I always figured for the first few books of the bible, Judaism and Christianity were the same. Correct me if I'm wrong.. When it comes to asking the bible for moral advice.. I tend to look in the later books, New Testament onwards. I figure that'll be more relavent to nowadays as it is a lot more modern. Not only that, but God seems a lot less violent later on.
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Imp
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Post by Imp on Jun 14, 2006 16:20:38 GMT -5
I don't know what to say for myself personally, except that I find it hard to believe that an ancient Hebrew (Jewish) Rabbi was a celebate man who didn't have a wife or kids. (I'm not trying to spread conspiracy theories a la Dan Brown, nor am I trying to start a fight) Merely, I find it hard to believe that an ancient religious leader of ancient Hebrews, who were ruled by all intents and purposes by their religion (like all religions at the time), would be single and celebate, when their religion specifically commands that "You shall be fruitful and multiply" as well as that it was tradition that EVERY Jewish man was married by at the very latest 2-3 years after his Bar Mitzvah (As in, 16 at the latest). Say what you will, but I say Jesus was married and probably had kids, unless he was somehow impotent. That is a sensible - and possible - conclusion, assuming Jesus was merely a man and a prophet. Christianity also proclaims him God. If Jesus Christ was God and Man, and believed himself to be God, there's nothing illogical about the way he lived his life. -- But Brad - oy. You understand, I think, more than most Christians I know about the beauty and madness of Christianity. There is something revolutionary about it - in every aspect. I can say myself it's a story I'd want to live and believe whether there was reason, or history and proof of it. I happen to be Catholic. As with anything, there are as many ways of seeing as there are people. If you want to read a brilliant thinker on Christianity - who has a similar, if slightly lighter bent than you've demonstrated here, read GK Chesterton. He thinks, as you do, obviously. That's not a lot ...I don't have time to go into much depth. I'll try to get back to write some more, needed. The definition of orthodoxy.
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Post by incandescence on Jun 14, 2006 16:49:03 GMT -5
Cheers Imp!
I was, indeed, as I told Snoink, looking for a good Chesterton-fan. Certainly my motives for actualizing the Christian legacy as revolutionary are far more subversive than either of Chesterton's or Kierkegaard's, since I tend to conceptualize Marxists and Christians as fighting the same battle -- the onslaught of New Age-isms.
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writingluver5
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Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow, you may diet!
Posts: 154
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Post by writingluver5 on Jun 14, 2006 17:55:36 GMT -5
Like others, I'm confused as to what you meant at first, Brad. And Snoink, the website you posted is FANTASTIC-it's orthodox and very informational. I use it a lot for research when I have to do religion papers. If you didn't guess, I'm Catholic too!
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Post by incandescence on Jun 14, 2006 21:35:38 GMT -5
I'm not really certain as how to further clarify the point, but I'll try to summarize the point: Christianity is the only religion where God was, for a moment, an atheist.
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Post by Areida on Jun 14, 2006 23:15:31 GMT -5
Ooh, I second Dream Deep. Chesterton's a good one, without question.
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Imp
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Post by Imp on Jun 15, 2006 18:30:15 GMT -5
I'm not really certain as how to further clarify the point, but I'll try to summarize the point: Christianity is the only religion where God was, for a moment, an atheist. In a way, yes - for a moment God was completely human, in every aspect of doubt, of fear, grief and despair. God died.
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Fand
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Post by Fand on Jun 15, 2006 23:03:32 GMT -5
My way of seeing the Christian legacy: I have no issues with God. He/She/It has been pretty good to me overall. What I have problems with is organized religion--and especially Christianity. The arrogance of it, assuming that Christians know the One True God and the One Right Way, and everyone else is wrong and doomed to hell for being raised to believe differently... I'm sorry if I have the interpretation wrong, but based on several conversations with one of my friends, a nondenominational Christian pastor's daughter, that is how I have come to view the religion. Of course, if what I said above doesn't apply to you, please accept my sincerest apologies for generalizing and my thanks for being so freaking awesome. ^_^
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Post by Duskglimmer on Jun 16, 2006 16:32:48 GMT -5
I'm not really certain as how to further clarify the point, but I'll try to summarize the point: Christianity is the only religion where God was, for a moment, an atheist. Atheism, by definition, says that there is no God. Begging your pardon, but Christ's declaration at the cross ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?") hardly says that to me. His cry does not deny the existance of God, but merely show us that for that moment, God turned his back on his own son because his son had taken on our sins and God could not be in the presence of that. As for saying that Christianity is Judiasim without the work... That's unfortunate that that's how it comes across. Too often the "come as you are" statement is interpreted as you can do whatever you want just as long as you believe. What it really means is that you don't have to wait until you're perfect to come to him, he'll take you as you are and make you perfect in HIM. As for what I think about Christianity, I believe that it is a life-altering, world-rocking belief that there is a God, that this God cares for you and created you and that he has control over everything. It is a belief that he wants to know you personally and completely transform your life into something better than you could ever get for yourself.
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