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Post by MisterWaffles on Jul 1, 2006 23:59:26 GMT -5
I need some help pretty bad in this area. I never know what to look for, I never feel like saying it when I find something, and I never know what to say.
My contribution to this site is very low due to my laziness and my lacking ability to help someone other than myself.
What do I look for? What if someone has already mentioned it in their critique? Etc.?
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Post by Areida on Jul 2, 2006 16:33:17 GMT -5
I think it never hurts to reiterate it, unless there's been twelve critiques on the piece saying "I think you should change such and such" and the author has agreed but hasn't gotten around to editing it yet. Reading good critiques is one way to improve. I read critiques by people like Snoink, smaur, Dusky, and Sam to help me get better. A lot of times there will seem to be something wrong with a story that I just can't put my finger on, then I'll get down to one of their critiques and they'll have pinpointed it. It's kind of like writing - you improve your writing by reading frequently, especially good books. But it goes the other way as well; reading an occasional bad book will show you what not to do. So if you receive a review that leaves you thinking, "Are you serious? That had absolutely nothing helpful in it!" then learn from that and try not to reply on someone else's story or poem the same way. What I usually try to do is read through the whole thing, taking my time. So I don't forget, if I come across a passage or a paragrah that interests/amuses/irks me, or if I just want to comment on it, I paste it into a Word document and keep reading so I don't lose my flow. At the end, I go back into the Word document and add my comments to the things I pasted into it. Then I re-read the piece and try to pick out any grammatical or spelling errors, along with problems in sentence structure. I try to make suggestions about how someone could fix a sentence, because it drives me crazy when someone quotes something in my story and says, "I don't think this works. Rephrase." but I've had it in there so long that I've memorized it that way and I can't figure out another way to say it. So even if I don't use another person's suggestions, I can still use them to jumpstart my own ideas. I think there are some good writing tutorials around here somewhere; those are always nice, even for editing.
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Sam
Writer
No, darling. I'm not a monster- I'm merely misunderstood.
Posts: 61
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Post by Sam on Jul 2, 2006 16:36:05 GMT -5
-Look for things that make you read twice or just bother you. Tear off a page from a notebook and keep notes as you read. -If people have already mentioned something- say it twice! It doesn't seem as big a problem to a writer (even if it is) if only one reader speaks up. Besides, it makes you look like you're a slacker when you don't reply merely because 'x pretty much summed it up'. -More specific things to look for: cheesy characters/clichès, repeated grammar mistakes- those are the most frequent errors. When you get better at looking for these, people really need help with plot (and the actual storytelling too) most of the time. Hope it helps! Critiquing's a great way to improve your own writing as well as someone else's.
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Elelel
Junior Writer
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Posts: 41
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Post by Elelel on Jul 3, 2006 3:29:17 GMT -5
Generally, if you're not really sure what to do I'd:
1) say something/s that you liked about the story. Don't just say it was a good story and you enjoyed it. Try to say why you enjoyed it. It can really help people. If you didn't like the story at all and thought that everything sucked, try harder to find something good to say before getting into the bad things.
2) say things you think could be better in the story, and give advice on how to fix them. These can be anything. Nitpick over grammar if you wish, or give them some tips on how you think the flashback they used could be handled better.
3) give your views on characters and events and ask some questions. You could even try a few predictions of what's going to happen next. It helps the writer know what people reading their story are thinking.
4) do a little summary thingie.
Note: some people say that you don't have to be nice and that you shouldn't sugar coat things. Look at it this way: chances are, there's going to be something good about the story, and pointing it out is only going to help them keep doing the right thing. If you want to be harsh about something, first decided whether you think the writer can take what you're about to say. If they can't, still say it, but maybe say it in a gentler way.
Also note: This isn't the official critique guidelines. This is just my idea of a critique.
Also also note: Probably best not to comment on the writer's age or anything like that, unless they actually draw attention to it themselves.
Oh yes, and if you find that you really don't know what to say, you can always ramble on about what you think about such-and-such.
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Post by Writersdomain on Jul 3, 2006 9:41:48 GMT -5
It's always a good idea to reiterate a problem someone else has mentioned if you see it as a problem also. Sometimes when only one critiquer points out a problem, a reader can brush it off and attribute it to the critiquer's different style, but when multiple people point out a simiar problem, it tells the writer something. Always support. As El and Areida said, it's always good to point out at least one good thing about the piece - even if it's just one word. It gives the writer the confidence to edit their piece and not just throw it away because of all the problems you point out. Grammatical and spelling errors are always good to point out, but personally, I focus more on sentence structure, repetition and individual phrases or words. As El mentioned, it is REALLY helpful to comment on characters and your impressions, but I cant give much advice with that 'cause that's where I tend to lack in my critiques. In terms of not knowing what to say, a writer often loves it when a critiquer will point out a paragraph/sentence in their piece they think needs fixing and explains why, but if you do not know what's wrong with the awkward setction, do not be afraid to just say 'This didn't sound right' and perhaps guess at why. Chances are another critiquer will see it too and build off what you saw. And when you see what they thought the problem was, you'll learn. One of the most handy tools in critiquing is reading other peoples' critiques and observing how they go about it. I know when I first joined YWS, I was an AWFUL critiquer and I hated it, but after observing other critiquers, I began to love it and grasp the feel of it. And don't be afraid to be a nitpick
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Post by Snoink on Jul 3, 2006 22:33:25 GMT -5
I wrote something about it a while ago. ^_^I have to agree with some of the gals here... reading critiques is a very helpful thing to do. I read some of the best critiques on TYWC (another older writing site) and then would email these people asking them to critique my work. When they critiqued my work, I would put their messages in a Word file and look at them while writing my story (which, embarrassingly enough, was FREAK). Some of them were nitpickish on the grammar, others would break the story with their comments, some commented on the overall appeal only, and so on. Then, as I looked at the critiques more thoroughly, I began to see what worked for me and what I liked. I love being praised at first, before I'm slaughtered. I don't know... If you read my story and tell me outright what you loved, I'll be a lot more receptive to you, unless you loved nothing and hated it all equally. I like analysis. What do you think of my characters? I put a big effort in how the characters are shown. If I've made a mistake in how they come across, I want to know. For instance, one person (smaur, I think) thought Daniel was kind of perverted. And then there was the embarrassing moment where Sam pointed out something that made no sense whatsoever... XD So yeah. My thoughts about it.
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Elelel
Junior Writer
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Posts: 41
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Post by Elelel on Jul 4, 2006 1:41:59 GMT -5
Yes, I'd praise first. My history teacher told me one way to write essays was to hit with your strongest point first, then later do the things that don't back your idea up (with a HOWEVER or something to point out the good side of that point). I think that principle is a good one for this situation too. The thing you say first is what people are going to remember and it will influence their ideas or mood (depending on what you're trying to influence) while reading the rest. So be good first, then kind of add the bad stuff as important afterthoughts.
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